32420 responses tohttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.jesusallaboutlife.com%2F2009%2F10%2F03%2Fpostcards-to-say-something-010%2FPostcards+to+say+something%3A+0102009-10-03+07%3A30%3A01blackhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.jesusallaboutlife.com%2F%3Fp%3D324 to “Postcards to say something: 010”

1. 

   AllAboutLies October 3rd, 2009 at 18:30

   #JAAL : Postcards to say something: 010 http://bit.ly/1MNyiz

   This comment was originally posted on Twitter

2. 

   Jono Leonard October 3rd, 2009 at 20:50

   This is an impudent show of vandalism. I have always believed that as an atheist, I was part of a group with superior morals and ethics. Somehow I am starting to believe that this is not the case. Instead of encouraging petty crime to argue against religion, why don’t we keep it sophisticated and intelligent and perhaps we irreligious people will show that religion is not needed to establish moral values and atheism is a lot more productive way of thinking.

3. 

   black October 3rd, 2009 at 22:49

   Hi, Jono.

   I merely post what has been sent, in this case, and observe that the original image of the giant furniture has been appropriated from an artist (apparently with no acknowledgement or payment), used in commerce in support of a religion, placed by paid contract in a public space, vandalised by a member or members of the public, photographed as worthy of remark by yet another party, and forwarded to me. That seems to be of some semiotic significance.

   Your idea that all atheists are, or must be, moral übermenschen of some sort, is as fallacious as the idea that all believers are good, or indeed the idea of the person who altered the advertisement: “Darwin fish with legs = antithesis of Jesus”.

   The idea of atheism unites us in one thing: freedom from belief in god(s): I also hope we can move beyond the urge to join hands and sing any anthem.

   I do not encourage lawbreaking, but I am also going to report matters that are handed to me. I am not under the impression that the person who photographed this altered sign is the person who performed the alteration.

   Thank you for your concern.

4. 

   scal63 October 3rd, 2009 at 23:32

   Postcards to say something: 010 | Jesus All About Life LIES http://bit.ly/Dx6M

   This comment was originally posted on Twitter

5. Tweets that mention Postcards to say something: 010 | Jesus All About Life LIES -- Topsy.com October 3rd, 2009 at 23:34

   [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Steve Calaman. Steve Calaman said: Postcards to say something: 010 | Jesus All About Life LIES http://bit.ly/Dx6M [...]

6. 

   Jono Leonard October 3rd, 2009 at 23:56

   Yep good point it was wrong for me to assume that all atheists have superior morals. Nonetheless vandalism is still wrong in my eyes, not just because it is against the law but because it is essentially taking away from someone what their money has payed for and hence may even be considered as a form of steeling, it’s also looks like shit.

7. 

   black October 3rd, 2009 at 23:59

   Jono: your insights might be welcome over at the Atheist Foundation Of Australia forums, where you would probably meet many others to share views with.

   Some will be similar, and others will differ, but I think you’ll like the experience.

   As far as “superior morals” goes, you may even find there are considerable shades of grey.

   Thank you again for commenting.

8. 

   Gee Suss October 4th, 2009 at 15:04

   Yea have to agree, there are differing opinions of what is ‘vandalism’, where I can see this as ‘vandalism’, I also can understand how it is also ‘art’.

   Much grafitti is dis-empowered people taking back ‘space’, making a mark on a community and fighting for recognition in a world where everything has the label of ‘owned’. It is a social critique as well as an artistic re-construction of the oppression they feel day to day.

   Obviously with a 1.5 million dollar expenditure to promote chairs, someone out there thought this personal statement empowered them in some way.

   I may not like the methodology, but from such a simple technique there is much being said in the piece. The simplicity leads to a very direct application of thought, especially in the Darwin fish, juxtaposed against what appears a large establishments outpouring of money. From simple things does greater things lead.

   thought provoking anyway.

9. 

   nerdiah October 4th, 2009 at 22:33

   Bollocks. It’s a bus-shelter; it’s a public space. Advertisers pour millions into polluting our visual landscape and taking up our mind-share with their stupid messages, and we have no legitimate form of recourse available to us to express disagreement or dissent in a comparably powerful way. Vandalism it technically might be, but I’d think it was better described as culture-jamming; and a pretty funny example of it at that.

   As to “I have always believed that as an atheist, I was part of a group with superior morals and ethics”, welcome to reality. Atheists are simply people without a belief in God or gods. Being atheists says nothing about their morals and ethics. If you want a group to join to give you a feeling of moral superiority, go take up with a religion.

10. 

    black October 6th, 2009 at 13:07

    In Grafton, somebody nicked a Jesus campaign banner from one of the churches.

    http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/story/2009/10/06/thief-be-warned-jesus-wants-his-banner-returned/

    The banner is worth more than $240 and is one of five similar banners that have been stolen from churches across the state in the past two weeks.

    “What would anyone want with a ‘Jesus All About Life’ banner?” Pastor Holder said

    “It is disappointing that people’s property has to be stolen by people that aren’t aware of the value that it holds.”

    “We are a church. We are here to help the people and that’s what makes this so disappointing.”

    Pastor Holder said it was clear some thought had gone into the theft it as it would have taken a certain type of knife to cut through the rope that attached the banner to the fence.

    He said the church was publicising the theft to get the banner back where it belonged.

    “We would just like it returned,” he said.

    “There’s no hard feelings.”

    Please, people. Don’t risk prosecution: there are so many productive ways to voice your criticism.

11. On trolling, hypocricy and vandalism. « Bastard Sheep October 7th, 2009 at 19:45

    [...] I decided to also check out jesusallaboutlife.com – a parody site set up when it was discovered the JAAL people only registered the .com.au domain, not the .com one, and saw on the front page this particular article. [...]

12. 

    black October 7th, 2009 at 20:32

    As I replied on the Bastard Sheep blog:

    Perhaps if you’d bothered to read the article fully, before engaging Fully Outraged Mode, you may see that I discouraged any emulation of the act.

    I do not endorse the act, but understand that I am not appointed as Moral Compass Of The World.

    Of course I don’t know if he will okay the comment, but there you go.

13. 

    black October 7th, 2009 at 20:36

    Also added this comment to the Bastard Sheep:
    Oh, by the way, we did not have anything to do with defacing the signs. We were forwarded the photo.

    *My* reading comprehension must be almost as bad as yours: I missed the accusation first time through.

14. 

    Bastard Sheep October 7th, 2009 at 20:45

    As I responded at my blog, it was not the article I was criticising but the act and the person who did it. I do agree with your further comments in this post (which I admit I had not read until now).

    I actually used this site as an example of good tactics to use, as it takes the parody style without interfering and disrupting the JAAL official sites.

15. 

    black October 7th, 2009 at 20:51

    Thanks, BSheep! I think there are many creative ways to parody and criticise without the risk of prosecution.

    Of course, a $240 banner must look like a kick in the guts to any homeless street kid passing the church…. more on that later.

16. 

    Kittykatmandoo October 13th, 2009 at 15:49

    Yes, thanks, Ikea! RT @AllAboutLies Postcards to say something: 010 http://bt.io/I5G

    This comment was originally posted on Twitter

17. 

    Ian from OZ March 6th, 2010 at 07:14

    Actually Atheism is all about lies. It claims to know all about everything everywhere and cannot observe the Almighty and so incorrectly attributes God's creation to chance. Completely ignoring that it cannot see dark energy and dark matter. Atheism requires a cause and it's foundational claim is that that chance made the cosmos and life. Furthemore it claims evolution built all the species by chance but there is no valid mechanism amking evolution a dodgy fabrication. The only conceivable mechansim for evoltuion is mutation and natural selection as Darwin hypothesized. Both remove information from the genome and hence move in the opposite direction to where evolution needs to go.

18. 

    Ian fron OZ March 6th, 2010 at 07:15

    The information stored in DNA has to have got there somehow. There is a lot of room for variation within a single species and natural selection moves to favour particlur variants but when it does so it can permanently remove information from the species. So how does DNA aquire the information in the first place. Certainly not by mutations as observations show that these copying mistakes are only adding diseases to the species. Recent research clearly showns that humans have up to a trillion mistakes in our DNA and as we populate the mistakes are increased. The rate of the mistakes occuring in humans favour the Biblical version of history. Mr Dawkins claims to have some evidence for evolution but all he is saying is that there are different varieties of dogs and foxes. Why does he claim then to have evidence when there is none.

19. 

    Gee Suss March 9th, 2010 at 00:05

    Ian, atheism is not anything more than not having a belief in a god, there is no claims inherent to it that is 'all about lies'. I will respond to each post with a separate comment.

    [blockquote]It claims to know all about everything everywhere and cannot observe the Almighty and so incorrectly attributes God's creation to chance.[/blockquote]

    Atheism does not make any claims. It is simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. That's it, and simply because you claim to have an answer to a question does not make that answer correct.

    If you are refering to evolution with regard 'chance' it is anything but. The Theory of Evolution is about natural selection, which is not chance, but a definite process of selection.

    [blockquote]Atheism requires a cause and it's foundational claim is that that chance made the cosmos and life.[/blockquote]

    Your wrong. Atheism only means you are not a theist. Atheism means you do not have a belief in a god or gods, that is it. Look it up. It claims nothing. You are making a claim, an atheist just does not have a belief your claim is true.

    [blockquote]Furthemore it claims evolution built all the species by chance but there is no valid mechanism amking evolution a dodgy fabrication[/blockquote]

    Coming from someone with no evidence at all for their claim? LOL

    Again, natural selection is not chance. You really need to read about evolution as you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Here is some evidence for evolution : http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

    [blockquote]The only conceivable mechansim for evoltuion is mutation and natural selection as Darwin hypothesized. Both remove information from the genome and hence move in the opposite direction to where evolution needs to go.[/blockquote]

    That's simply not true. You may find pictures helpful as you obviously have trouble reading up about it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I14KTshLUkg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9u50wKDb_4

20. 

    Gee Suss March 9th, 2010 at 00:15

    "when it does so it can permanently remove information from the species"

    Define this 'information' you are talking about. I don't think you have a concept over what DNA information is.

    "Certainly not by mutations as observations show that these copying mistakes are only adding diseases to the species."

    Um, no, show us these observations. Here read this plus references :

    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB102.html

    Show me these 'observations' you are talking about.

    "Recent research clearly showns that humans have up to a trillion mistakes in our DNA and as we populate the mistakes are increased."

    Sigh, you are again just making claims that are wrong, where is your references?

    http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/DNA-Repl…

    "Mr Dawkins claims to have some evidence for evolution but all he is saying is that there are different varieties of dogs and foxes. Why does he claim then to have evidence when there is none."

    Umm no, try reading his latest book for a start, he explains your mistake explicitly. He is explicitly talking about common descent.

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

    Try actually citing references for your claims. Your claims about atheism, evolution etc are also just simply wrong. You have an error of reasoning called a logical fallacy, specifically the Straw Man argument.